Synergy with Sensei's!

You don't *have* to download it (It's not completely finished) but have a
look and don't drool on your keyboard :)

http://www.zenhacker.com/SGFReader.htm

There is synergy with Sensei's Library!
Any word, or pair of words in the Game comments window
can be automatically looked up in Sensei's Library by clicking on it, or in
between.

The synergy is absolutely amazing, for a beginner like myself.

For example, I was going throug a game by Weems on KGS.
Many people talked about things like: "He plays like so-and-so" or: "Why
does he do a <Japanese term>"

I just click on people's names (In between first name and surname) or on the
Go term and in 1 second the relevant articles appear in a little docked
window. Try it! (sometimes the words need whitespace in front of them).

This is much faster than Google. No typing, no cutting & pasting.
Thanks to the work of the people who made Sensei's Library (I hope Arno
Hollosi does not mind I implemented this functionality), any comment text in
any SGF becomes in a sense a hyperlinked document.

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

It's people like you that keep me going :)

It looks nice, but I have to complain why there will never be a Linux
version. Dude thats really weird - can't Linux run it anyways in the
windows emulator?

My guess is that you used microsoft visual C++ (sigh). If so, let this be a
lesson to you why that is a bad idea, because now a lot of users can't use
your software, me included. And it does look very nice. CGoban2 is my
current SGF editor, which looks good and has good usability too.

Some advice. Whever you write software like that, encapsulate all windowing
functions into a library called Screen. That way all you have to do is
produce a Screen.cpp file for every OS and your program will never require
any other major changes (as long as you use proper C++). thx.

-frl

That's a great idea, but a shortsighted implementation.

It's too easy to get wrong: clicking in a text area to automatically
invoke a web browser window is a surprising behaviour, and would be very
annoying to discover by accident.

It doesn't scale: if you actually want to look up four words together,
this method can't allow for it.

Here's an implementation that doesn't have these problems:

Select any text in the comments window, right-click and select "Sensei's
Lookup"; the text will be looked up at Sensei's Library.

Here's to an ever-improving variety of go clients!

--
\ "[T]he question of whether machines can think [...] is about as |
`\ relevant as the question of whether submarines can swim." -- |
_o__) Edsger W. Dijkstra |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>

I don't know. I assume not. Perhaps someone with Wine & Linux can try it?

No, it is not programmed in C/C++ but in Delphi (Object Pascal).

I never intended my SGF Reader to be a full-fledged editor as well, but it
will come, soon. The reason I made a freeware SGF Reader is to give people a
general idea on the level of quality & support they can expect in future
commercial products like a Go Player, or a powerful Joseki/Fuseki/Pattern
Database like MasterGo:

http://www.mastergo.com/

(in fact I intend to compete with them soon, both on price and on features)

The people who regularly buy those products have the money for a copy of
Windows as well, and they want ease of use before everything else.
Don't tell me Linux is easier to use or there is more & better software for
it.
So I don't see why this is "a lesson". If it's a lesson to anybody, it's a
lesson to you that it was a bad decision to use Linux, as a lot of software
doesn't run on it :)

Thanks. It's under development still, I got some bug reports on the GUI,
amongst other things.
It's going to be MUCH better VERY quickly, exactly BECAUSE it's not
cross-platform.
It was a well-deliberated design desicion to go with Delphi and not with
C++, .net or Java.

What I appreciate is advice on WHAT to program, namely bug reports and
feature requests.

The tens of thousands of lines of code that comprise the GUI are hard to
port, and for good reason, I *choose* to use the world's best GUI widgets.
The treeview I use has several man-years of development behind it. The same
goes for the docking windows.
But the goban itself is a very complex piece of work (to make it relatively
fast with near-perfect rendering quality) that is highly portable.

This is nice for small programs that are mainly non-GUI or for huge
corporate software that does not have to look too good and have too many
cool GUI features. Lowest-common-denominator stuff really isn't my thing.
Indie game developers agree that GUI-heavy software, where the GUI is one
ofthe main selling points, should never be made cross-platform as you'll be
making a less-than-optimal product. Read it on Dexterity:
http://tinyurl.com/3ywhp

So far, 81% of the visitors to my site is MS Windows and I suspect at least
4 times the number of Windows users is prepared to pay 100 USD for Go
software than a Linux user, which makes Linux a 4% market for me, at best.

I will wait until Free Pascal (Lazarus) supports Delphi better and simply
recompile:
http://tinyurl.com/yr7du

This is a nice post, but I have to complain you will never write this
in my mother tongue - Dutch. Man that's so bizarre - couldn't you just
automatically translate using Babelfish or something?

My guess is that you use Collins Cobuild as your dictionary (sigh). If

lot of readers inthe world can't read your message, including me. But
your post does look very nice. Van Dale is my current English-Dutch
dictionary - it has good usability and it's so heavy you grow some arm
muscle too.

etc etc

--Stefan

Agreed!

And please allow me to add that on the Mac, one could write such a
tool as a service, which would then be available to any application
where you can select text. Any taker?

marco

Marco Scheurer
Sen:te, Lausanne, Switzerland http://www.sente.ch/

It's not that I'm shortsighted, it's just that I have only one pair of hands
:)

You haven't understood how it works.
There will be no browser window opened.
What I described is a patentable invention, never seen before AFAIK.
A small part of my own program contains a resizable/dockable window that is
not a browser, it is a tightly-integrated Sensei's Library only.

It looks as if it is 100% integrated into the Reader:
http://www.zenhacker.com/SGFReader/sensei.gif

So, what you do is you click at a word or between words in the Text window
and immediately Sensei will search on titles.
When no titles are found, it will do a full text search, all automatically
without selecting anything. or choosing from popup menus.
In 99.9% of cases, this works fine and super-fast. Move mouse on word or on
space between words, click, 300 milliseconds later there is a list of highly
relevant results.

(My website can be shut down for the remainder of the month any moment due
to the hundreds of downloads I got recently,
consider donating to keep the Reader online or suggest a mirror)

The whole innovation and usefullness here lies in the fac tthat you *don't*
have to select words, then click to make a popup appear, then click
"lookup". Of course I will make some improvements to the fucntionality as
you suggested, but the whole ide is to select and click nothing but the word
or word pair.

I don't think you ever really need more than 2 words anyway. Sensei's has
not the entire Internet, it is a Go encyclopedia.
I support word pairs, to enable the reliable lookup of things like players's
names and things like "Chinese opening".
In practice, I don't think it's a serious limitation but nevertheless your
suggestion will of course be implemented.

Another option I will make is openingthe first search result automatically.

So, instead of going to a browser, open up Sensei's, cut & paste the words,
do a title search, then a full text search perhaps, then open the most
relevant search result, it all will go by itself. This means that it takes 1
second to get player's biographical data as opposed to 10 seconds. And
because nothing more is required than clicking once, it becomes second
nature.

This is very easy to make on every platform.
But who has the enormous resources to buy the patent rights from me?

This is something Google would be interested in, to have a little toolbar
that does automatic Google searches.

:-)

Today, however, I have just tried to install the latest beta version.
Immediately I got a message telling me that the default choice of directory
was already in use. I cancelled the install and explored. I discovered that
there was indeed a little structure: Zenhacker/Zenhacker Sgf
Reader/Zenhacker.ini.

That shouldn't be there after an uninstall, in my opinion. I conclude that
your whizz-bang install package is not so whizz-bang after all. You may
scoff again, and say it's just a matter of deleting these directories/files,
or overwriting them, but I am not a computer professional and I don't feel
confident doing that. I don't know what else has been left around as garbage
by your whizz-bang package, e.g. in the registry. In short, I don't trust
your whizz-bang package and I'm therefore unlikely to buy your own package.
That might seem an overreaction, but you are adding zillions of features. My
experience is that for every feature added, it adds at least ten more things
to go wrong. If you can't get even such a fundamental thing as a clean
uninstall right, it doesn't seem to bode well for the really complex stuff.

Great idea. I've never heard of anything like it before. It's a whole new
paradigm. Just imagine -- clicking somewhere and having something happen.

Well, first you would have to actually file for the patent, and then you
would have to defend it. Good luck.

They already do.

--
Bob Myers

I don't see anything inherently wrong with writing Windows-only
applications. What DID really annoy me was that the original post did not
mention that the program was Windows-only. So my first reaction was,
"Whoa, I must get this cool program!". And my second reaction - after
opening the browser and following the URL - "Oh, damn...".

Please, such things are important.

lament
30000k

That is a perfectly normal warning with install procedures.
It would be a bad thing when an installer would silently
delete/destroy/overwrite any files on your computer,
this is why I let it display a message when the user attempts sto do so.

You are entitled to your opinion.
But your opinion is very wrong.
The reason that this file is there, is because it contains all your user
preferences.
Everything, from your file history to the position of the docking windows.

This is not stored in the registry, nothing is ever stored in the registry
by ZH.
Microsoft's official policy is already for the past 6 years that the
registry she *not* be used except for inter-application communication.
They say you have to use a very deeply hidden folder structure for that, but
I have no secrets to hide. The user settings file is a simple INI file next
to the application.
And it is not deleted because it is property of the user, as it contains
his/her settings that are needed when he/she does another install.
The fact that I don't hide the user settings in the registry seems to make
you very upset.

That it may not be, or it may be that you jump to conclusions.
The installer is a 600 USD product, chosen after careful deliberation, that
does exactly what I want it to do.
If I wanted it to clean up that ini file, I could have done so, but then
there would be 700 people complaining:

"I downloaded the latest beta and ALL MY SETTINGS WERE GONE, MY FILE
HISTORY, MY PREFERENCES, EVERYTHING - YOU SUCK".

Instead, it's just you who is complaining, which is vastly preferable,
although you're doing a hell of a job trying to discredit me.

The installer asks you whether it's OK to use the folder, because it's not
empty, and because YOU chose to put files there.

*Never* it says that when you proceed, it will blow up your system, erase
your harddisk or send your credit card number to the Russian mafia.
I don't see why you need to turn a perfectly standard & sensible installer
message into an utter defamation of the product, insinuating all kinds of
stuff like "garbage in the registry" etc.

Not very gentlemanly, John. You seriously disappoint me .
I will remove my endorsement to GoGoD and you can cancel your sponsorship,
because this is the second time you insinuate that my freeware and future
products are dangerous, will be bad, etc.
I can gladly do without such sponsorship.

I will have to do without your future patronage John. :)
With the same non-argumentation I can accuse you of just about anything.
I strongly suspect the GoGoD CD actually physically damages my drive and
dials up porn sites.

It's called "creating something useful in an incremental manner and getting
feedback whilst doing it".
You know, agile development, XP, daily builds and such.

If is extremely unfair to generalize *your experience in the past* with this
actual product.
I had 700 downloaders already, ZERO people are whining on and on about
installer messages like you do, John.
If you have evidence of any garbage in the registry of horrendous bugs -
please say so.
There ain't.

In fact if I don't get a public apology,
you are NOT ALLOWED to download it any more, or anything else I will ever
produce, for that matter.
I will block your entire IP address range from my website.

The uninstall is perfect.

It removes everything except the original folder structure, which is normal.
And it leaves your settings intact. And it leaves your custom skins intact,
etc.

You are spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).

It's a pity. The first time you utterly flamed me I thought it was perhaps
just you having a bad day.
But this is no coincidence any more.
You are making money on distributing a CD with Go software and you are
afraid I am going to undercut your market because the stuff I am developing
at a very high pace is free!

We are now at war, John.

This is on a fully patched windows 2000 machine.

No, what you described is a software algorithm. Such things are
invariably an incremental development rather than a qualitative leap in
discovery, and patenting them is a parasitic act with no benefit to
society.

<http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/>

--
\ "I went to the hardware store and bought some used paint. It |
`\ was in the shape of a house." -- Steven Wright |
_o__) |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>

Absolutely not.
It is a principle, a novel idea, a method.
No "algorithm" involved, it is a single line of code that does it which is
extremely simple.
Just auto-copy text under mouse and send it in a special format to a browser
object.
It's the novel idea that is patentable.

I fully agree. It's disgusting to see how big corporations try to patent
just about everything.
But there is a difference between ethics and law.
The in fact do patent algorithms and ideas and they in fact do get
royalties.
And I have no intention whatsoever of patenting anything, although one of my
former employers has patented stuff I invented.

Microsoft recently patented the use of XML in any document, where the style
sheet is embedded in the same document or something like that.
People have patented ridiculous things. If someone could patent oxygen and
charge for it, it would happen.

The ability to select words in one application and have a third-party
application process the selected words is not a new idea. For example
take a look at WordReference Personal at http://www.wordreference.com/

Have you checked whether SL will allow these lookups to take place? I
think they still block requests which do not contain appropriate
referrer information in order to prevent remote mirroring of the site.
They also block IPs which make too many requests within a given time.

I like the idea but SL will see their traffic change as a result and you
really should have discussed it with them first (I gather you didn't
from the way you said you hope Arno "doesn't mind") so they could
understand any network and cost implications.

--
Chris

Does it work with a single click?

Do you seriously think I would produce software, advertize a feature and
never check wether it works at all?

I know.
It refused my requests, initially.
But since I see no harm done, with the very low load a few SGF Readers will
have (unperceptable, with perhaps a few clicks a day per reader), I choose
to circumvent that blocking feature.

Sensei's has, if I noticed right, immediately after my initial mentioning of
this functionality, added a popup window with a script that does something,
a little annoying bec. it flashes on the screen. I hope they don't mind that
I made this feature, now many more people might enjoy their work.

I have calculated that the increased traffic will be negligeable.
They had big problems with people trying to mirrow their entire site, which
is a whopping 25 MB.

In comparison, a single query of my reader is about five million times less
data transferred, (one kilobyte).
Lets say 1000 people use the Reader, and regularly use that feature (which
is only useful when you have terms in a loaded SGF text).

If 1000 people click 100 times per day, after approx. 1 year, there has been
a data traffic of 25 MB.
As to load on the server, this is similarly negligeable.
We're talking about a little SGF reader here with a couple of hundred
downloads, not Google bots or something.

There is absolutely no danger that my application can form a big load on
their server in any way, shape or form and when there are so many tens of
thousands of users of my SGF Reader that it will show up in Arno's
statistics, I will GIVE him a new server plus a year's worth of bandwith.
This is a real, serious promise that he and anyone else can take me to.

It depends on the product which is using this old idea.

It was a question of courtesy, not technical competence.

That's a shame. It's there for a reason. As an admin I'd be pissed off
if someone took it upon themselves to decide for themselves what would
be harmful or not and then work around the systems I had in place to
protect the network.

Regardless, it changes the traffic profile of the site and represents
another vector into the SL which is not controllable by them (them being
the people who admin SL).

They may find that your software is presenting information in an
incompatible format, or perhaps allowing trash words to be looked up and
skewing the search system, or perhaps causing people to be blocked for
trying the feature out a lot (imagine a school of pupils NAT'd behind a
single IP trying it out). It may require SL to continue to manage the
current search system in the event that they choose to implement a
different search system in order to not break your software. They may
receive support queries asking them questions about the feature in your
software.

Like I say, I like the idea of the feature but it rankles my principles
that you just go and implement it without first asking, then work around
a block which prevents it, then pooh-pooh the idea that it could
possibly have any negative impact on SL. I hope it turns out okay.

Great, but not the point really.

"The server". That's such a typical non-admin way of thinking about
things.

The costs and recompense aren't for you to decide, are they, so again
this missed the point. I'll hold off trying the software until I know
SL isn't going to be impacted in any way, because I very much value the
admin effort which goes into SL.

--
Chris

Sorry for that & thanks for the bug report.

I have fixed the problem, simply downloading v09991 again and installing
should fix it.

I found on Google that this is a known (but very rare) problem when 2
programs use Intel's Image Processing Library DLL, and both use a different
version of the same DLL, with the same name but different versions. It is an
extremely rare problem, you might be the only one experiencing it.

I simply renamed the DLL of which you have 2 on your machine, ipl.dll.

On your PATH is a DLL with the same name and a different version number. It
looks like another application has misbehaved and put it in your Windows
system folder (where applications NEVER should install anything).

Have fun trying it this time and apologies for the inconvenience!

Old or not, it's so useful that I wonder why not much (if any) other
software implements it.
Mind you, may current implementation is a bit shaky.

Use it gently, or it may enter an endless loop and hammer Sensei's with a
massive DOS :)
<just kidding>

Yes. They explained why, they do not want harvesting bots, scripts, that
sort of thing.
What I have is a tool to easier use Sensei's, for a human user that looks,
at normal reading speed, at their pages.
My tool leverages Sensei's intention, which is Go info for the masses.
No harm done to their server, it's preposterous just to suggest this.

I think the real reason people get pissed off with this feature is that it's
*very cool*.
It's a killer. And you might not like that I "capitalize" on the work that
others have done.
Well, that's life. Everybody uses the work of others in some way.
Sensei's is open and free for my program to "exploit", but it's not
explaotation, it is equivalent to a user having a browser open and typing
the words he wants to look up himself. I don't charge money for it and
Sensei's isn't going to get any poorer from it.

In fact they could start advertizing on their site, when their site is
integrated into 10,000 SGF Readers.
Not that that would be a good idea (it would be awful), but it shows that
there are several sides of the coin.

I would like Arno himself to speaks his mind on this.
Arno, I had 500 downloads in just the past 3 days, is your server load
shooting up now everybody is experimenting with this feature?

Yes.
I guess that's how admins are.
I have my share of problems too.
Since I put on my website that the current North Korean world champion Go,
KCC Igo, contains plagiarized code,
I got death threats, almost weekly break-ins, DDOS attacks on my IP address,
trojans without ever opening attachments, etc.

I could easily integrate such a function BECAUSE Arno has put precautions in
place for when things go wrong.
Let's say my app has a bug and it goes into an andless loop hammering their
server. Well, they do an auto-shutoff within 60 seconds, don't they?
I trust that if I have blown up Arno's server, he will say so, sinde I saw
him posting here yesterday.

If they want, I could change the referrer info to become
filterable/recognizable by them.

I could, in easily implement a "training mode". You look up a word in
Sensei's, ZH looks how it's done.

Because it's not just Sensei's that I want to integrate.
It will be customizable to any user preferred site(s).
Of course that also helps keep the traffic down.

So I really don't see any problems.
The future is finally arriving in comp. Go-world :)

Arno, what do you think about this?
(Sorry I haven't asked for permission, but I thought it was a bit weird to
ask for permission to use a website in a non-malicious, safe, non-commercial
and non-intrusive way)

If I can do anything to make this horrendous deed less serious, I'm all
ears.
I should have asked first, mea culpa.
I guess I was too excited and didn't want to wait for them to wake up.
Life is short, you know (especially mine).

"work around a block", well it's pretty simple.
I forgot how I did it but it took 3 minutes or so.
It's not really a block. Basically it checks whether you use a browser or a
computer program.
I made my program impersonate a browser.
Which it basically became.
It's a Sensei-browser with SGF reading capability.

Apart from this patronizing remark, could you enlighten us mere non-admins?

That is very considerate of you.
Until I have set up my own server in a few months, I pay for the freeware
you download.
I am already above the monthly limit and just ordered more.
I have a 1 GB limit per month and with 700 downloads a' raison of over 2MB,
it's lights out for me unless I cough up some extra dough.

(Hint: There is a "donate" button on the download page)

I'm sorry, but I'm certain I can find prior art from 10 years ago.
Dictionary lookup on the web from a text selection has been done on
NeXTSTEP a long time ago.

Ideas are not patentable.

my 2c.
Trunk

news:3Ns6c.1615$px6....@news2.e.nsc.no...

I'm sorry but I *have* to protest. SL is as much Morten's baby as it
is Arno's. :-)

Serious - I don't see why it would make a difference to SL where their
traffic comes from (i.e. a browser of some other "browsing"
application like Frank's). When hanging around on IGS and KGS I have
suggested to people they go and read stuff on SL. Are you suggesting I
should have asked Arno and Morten first because their traffic would
increase?

Keep ignoring all the red tape they try to throw at you, Frank! I love
the way you spend your time on *creating* something instead. ;-)

--Stefan

he is doing piece of good work - support him on his way.

> > That shouldn't be there after an uninstall, in my opinion.

I can understand John's point; when I started using Windows I expected
uninstall to remove all trace of the program, and was prepared to lose
file settings with that. Uninstall seems to imply that; if you
ininstall the a central heating boiler, you don't expect the new one
to know when you want the heating to come on! It's only later that I
learned *why* some files and directories hang around and have to be
deleted by hand.

You are a programmer, and apparently a very good one - but there are a
lot of people for whom the computer is a magic box; something that can
help with word processing or adding numbers, but is intimidating. What
other machines do you have in your house that can destroy months of
work if you click the wrong button?

The problem is, applications that do those things that don't give you
any warning either :)

Ultimately, it's up to you how you take it, but it seems a gross
overreaction to someone who's less informed around computers than you.

On a positive note, the screenshot looks fantastic. I'll be
downloading it and trying out the features ASAP!

Cheers
Rich

Nice viewer, i now have two new favorite Go things, the GTL
(congrats on 10 yrs btw) and viewing the reviews with this. Good
work.

gnat.

Plenty of software uses the idea of jumping to the Web with specific
data to process. Wordreference is just an example off the top of my
head which is close in functionality to your own implementation in your
reader.

Sigh. I'm not saying that their server is or isn't being "harmed", just
that you don't know nor apparently care, such is your haste to get the
great cool feature advertised.

Please... what nonsense is this?

With all your exagerration you're so flippant, while missing the point.

Patronising, like "Do you seriously think I would produce software,
advertize a feature and never check wether it works at all?" you mean?

Non-admins tend to assume that the admins spend their time looking after
"the server" and that if "the server" is behaving itself that the admins
stick their feet up and read the paper all day waiting for something to
break. There tends to be little appreciation of the constant work
involved.

You're a true martyr Frank. I wish you great success.

--
Chris

http://www.google.com/toolbar/, and furthermore the same thing exists
in a bunch of other applications (I'm pretty sure I've seen very
similar things in at least one "info" reader, and BlitzIn, the ICC
client, has similar behaviour).

Also, you might want to apologise to John Fairbairn. His work isn't in
contradiction with yours at all - if he's in direct "conflict" with
anyone it's Uli Goertz, and they get on so badly that John and T Mark
distribute Kombilo _with_ GoGoD these days. I see a Go playing program
and a database of games as being complimentary, like Fritz and
Chessbase in the chess world.

- Andrew

> Don't tell me Linux is easier to use or there is more & better software
> for it.

Did I say that? No.

> So I don't see why this is "a lesson". If it's a lesson to anybody, it's a
> lesson to you that it was a bad decision to use Linux, as a lot of
> software doesn't run on it :)

It's a lesson because you made a choice to use certain development tools,
and only because of that you have limited the distribution of your
software. I am sorry I must disagree with you when you say Delphi/Object
Pascal (or whatever) helps you code faster,it does not. And if it takes
tens of thousands of lines of code to make the gui in your program, I
simply do not know what to say.

> What I appreciate is advice on WHAT to program, namely bug reports and
> feature requests.
(irrelevant part above; relevant part below).
> The tens of thousands of lines of code that comprise the GUI are hard to
> port, and for good reason, I *choose* to use the world's best GUI widgets.

It runs on KDE? Wow! Where can I download it?

> This is nice for small programs that are mainly non-GUI or for huge
> corporate software that does not have to look too good and have too many
> cool GUI features. Lowest-common-denominator stuff really isn't my thing.

What you say doesen't make sense. Just include images with the gui software
and it willlook the same everywhere.

Don't tell me porn looks better on windows, too :)

> Indie game developers agree that GUI-heavy software, where the GUI is one
> ofthe main selling points, should never be made cross-platform as you'll
> be making a less-than-optimal product. Read it on Dexterity:
> http://tinyurl.com/3ywhp

This simply isn't true. The gaming industry thrives on being able to release
multiplatform games. All major titles on consoles for example, are released
on all major consoles. Popular games from the past also often get ported
over to new consoles, even though it is a lot of effort, because it makes
money. Today, most of those games are written in extremely portable
languages so they can be as cross platform as possible.

> So far, 81% of the visitors to my site is MS Windows and I suspect at
> least 4 times the number of Windows users is prepared to pay 100 USD for
> Go software than a Linux user, which makes Linux a 4% market for me, at
> best.

There could be many ways to explain those statistics. For example, what if
Linux users needed to have a better memory in order to run Linux, because
linux is a complex sotb? Then the true numbers could be 70-25. What if
linux users don't visit your site because "why would I come back since
there's nothign here for me?" Then the true numbers could be 50-50 or
greater.

I think you've severely underestimated *something*, I just don't know
precisely what it is.

> I will wait until Free Pascal (Lazarus) supports Delphi better and simply
> recompile:
> http://tinyurl.com/yr7du

Great idea! Please post that on your website instead of the part which says
"there will *never* be a linux version".

-frl

It doesn't surprise me any more.
These people have zero ethics.
John is angry because I did not agree to let my software be included on his
CD, and because he knows I am going to produce similar software than on his
CD.

Those people make a lot of money on selling other people's software.
So they include software AGAINST the will of the author?

That's despicalbe, it means that I will be forced to change the licensing of
everything I make/improve from now from freeware into shareware + limited
use block.

John has finally met his match, and I don't care how many people will fall
all over me for saying & ultimately doing this:

Let it be an official announcement:

I have decided, and told him, that I reserve the right to use/re distribute
some/all/part of the GoGoD SGF games with my future software, as long as it
is legal under international and national copyright law. I see no problems
in taking 20,000 GoGoD games, stripping any comments and tightly integrating
them into my upcoming expert system. An I have won a lawsuit on software
copyright before, I know what I am talking about.

Which will be done, ASAP.
As we all know by now, games are not copyrightable, only annotations on
games are.

I am planning to integrate everything useful into my coming Go software.
Everything that I have either permission for to integrate (like Kogo's
Joseki Dictionary), or things that are LEGAL for me to integrate and of
which the authors have repeatedly tried to discredit my products for their
own financial gain.

I realize that a lot of people may think this is "bad" of me, so be it.
The GoGoD people have destroyed all credit that they had with me, and I
should think also publicly, when you look at the way they tried to
manipulate public opinion towards my program and who knows what they did to
Uli.

They don't get alon with Uli but still take his free software and sell it on
their CD?
John told me: "We are not selling software, we are selling games & HTML
pages and the games are included for free".
Well, tough luck because the games are not copyrightable.

I *AM* going to sell software and the games will be included for free.

> Ideas are not patentable.

Idea + implementation method.

Good idea.
I will do that ASAP.

Trunk

"Richard Lancashire" <rlanc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ad6f59.04031...@posting.google.com...

Trunk

"Stefan Verstraeten" <stefan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b850d0a8.04031...@posting.google.com...

I know Frank got a little ticked in some of the emails, but constructive
criticism is alright, when you do release a software, and usually free,
you get lot of things like "hey, why this is not Unix", instead of a nice
postcard in the mail, like "Thanks for doing this, I appreciate it", and
I hope you get better soon (I have read all your blogs -- really good
luck to you).

I think down the line most Go Applications are good, GoGod and
Zen being one of them. It should be welcomed that Frank has joined
this community, wether or not he knows Go (and I am sure he knows
it quite a bit)

Anyways, off to work, will find out if I get laid off today or not. 8|
Great US economy...

Trunk

Um, you're totally, utterly missing the point here. John Fairbairn's
JosekiBase and Uli Goertz's Kombilo have huge overlap, and even with
this they appear to get on absolutely fine. It looks like they've
actively worked with each other, in fact, to smooth any problems WRT
redistributing kombilo.

You appear to have totally missed my use of irony, in fact: "they get
on so badly that they mutually recommend each other's work on their
websites and have worked to ensure that Kombilo and GoGoD work
smoothly together!"

http://www.u-go.net/kombilo :

" Kombilo is a go database program. Its main purpose is to search for
games in which a given pattern or position occurs. You can also search
for other criteria (like time period, players, events). This program
does not come with any game records, but you can import games in SGF
format, so for example you can use one of the game collections which
are freely available for download. The GoGod database by John
Fairbairn and T Mark Hall is also an excellent choice (by the way:
Kombilo is now included on the GoGoD CD). "

http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk/:

" * Kombilo - an even better database manager kindly provided by
Ulrich Goertz. Superfast when doing position searches, it has a
host of other valuable features such as strict sgf parsing checks
and duplicate checks. "

I haven't seen a battle-front like that in ages, as I'm sure you'll agree.
Vicious verbal potshots there.

Really? I didn't get that impression at all.

With the author's active cooperation, in fact. Also, if you think T Mark Hall
and John Fairbairn are making any significant amount of money from GoGoD,
you're deluding yourself.

Worked with him and recommended his software on their webpage? Scandalous.
I *really* think you owe John Fairbairn and T Mark Hall a public apology
now. You've flown off the handle and are hurling invective without even
the pretence of minimal research.

- Andrew

--
andrew walkingshaw | andrew...@lexical.org.uk is a spamtrap, don't mail it

I think some of these posts should be private emails...

my 2c.

Trunk

Well, to a non-native speaker who has just been flamed for the third time by
Mr. Fairbairn, your line:

is open for multiple interpretations.

This does not in the least change my opinion on Mr. Fairbairn, and it does
not in the least affect my decision on how to compensate for the damage he
has repeatedly done to my reputation. It is sad that Go software vendors who
see me as a threat have to ressort to such sleazy tacktics.

In one of his posts, Fairbairn utterly takes the SGF Reader apart and
mentions a host of points that are bad, in his opinion. Some of them were
user error, the rest has been fixed. He was very hostile in his posts and I
remained polite.

Now, when I announced my gratitude to all bug-report submitters and all
issues John mentioned have been fixed, he reacts even MORE agressively,
saying that he has lost all faith in my software!? Stating no reason but a
perfectly ordinary installer message. If you read his 3 separate postings on
my software, each a few weeks apart, you can only conclude that they are
terribly vile and lack all argumentation.

Sorry, but being flamed in such a horrendous way, three times in a row, for
zero reason, is not a coincidence any more.
The GoGoD people are trying to discredit me, to remain in business. That's
the only explanation I can givew for such a smear campaign.

I call it a smear campaign because 3 lengthy posts on how likely it is that
my program is a piece of crap is a concerted effort to publicly discredit
it.

Hence my reaction: My upcoming redistribution of the 20,000 GoGoD games in
my own commercial product.
Expect a lot of it. It will far exceed the capabilities of everything on the
GoGoD CD.

Oh, and "I believe the GoGoD CD damages the CD player." LOL.

When GoGoD can't behave in a gentlemanly, ethical fashion, I won't either,
to protect myself.

Unless I misunderstood completely what the problem is, I think that
the right thing to do would be not to overwrite anything, and be
backward compatible with older preference files. A cryptic warning
message, without an explanation of what the consequences are is not
user friendly. This is a frequent problem with installer programs. But
again, I didn't see the message and could be wrong.

> [...]
> The fact that I don't hide the user settings in the registry seems to make
> you very upset.
>
> [...]
> Instead, it's just you who is complaining, which is vastly preferable,
> although you're doing a hell of a job trying to discredit me.
> [...]
> I don't see why you need to turn a perfectly standard & sensible installer
> message into an utter defamation of the product, insinuating all kinds of
> stuff like "garbage in the registry" etc.
>
> Not very gentlemanly, John. You seriously disappoint me .
> I will remove my endorsement to GoGoD and you can cancel your sponsorship,
> because this is the second time you insinuate that my freeware and future
> products are dangerous, will be bad, etc.
> I can gladly do without such sponsorship.
>
> [...]
> I will have to do without your future patronage John. :)
> With the same non-argumentation I can accuse you of just about anything.
> I strongly suspect the GoGoD CD actually physically damages my drive and
> dials up porn sites.
> [...]
> In fact if I don't get a public apology,
> you are NOT ALLOWED to download it any more, or anything else I will ever
> produce, for that matter.
> I will block your entire IP address range from my website.
> [...]
> The uninstall is perfect.
> [...]
> You are spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).
>
> It's a pity. The first time you utterly flamed me I thought it was perhaps
> just you having a bad day.
> But this is no coincidence any more.
> You are making money on distributing a CD with Go software and you are
> afraid I am going to undercut your market because the stuff I am developing
> at a very high pace is free!
>
> We are now at war, John.

Wow. And you are the one asking for a public apology...

1. You are completely overreacting to John's relatively mild and
mostly-constructive criticism in a completely uncalled for,
unprofessional, and (IMO) unethical manner.

2. While game records may or may not be copyrightable, my
understanding (IANL) is that collections of uncopyrightable
materials (e.g., game collections, phone books, cookbooks) are
copyrightable, as the act of creating a collection is considered,
at least in U.S. Copyright law, an original creative act. You
better have a long conversation with a lawyer before you think
about doing what you're proposing.

3. If you did include the hard work of the GoGoD authors in your
product without their permission and consent, even legally, I can
*guarantee* you that I would never buy your product.

--
-Patrick Bridges bri...@cs.arizona.edu GPG Key ID = CB074C71
GPG Key fingerprint = FEEA ECFF 1E23 148C 2804 FDD9 DB63 6993 CB07 4C71

"Anyone that can't make money on Sports Night should get out of the
money-making business" - Calvin, on the last episode of Sports Night

If SGF's were available in public, all this hoopla would end, then some
people
would take the SGF's add variations, comments and re-distribute them under
their own collections.

After all the Go Seigen games you find in Jan's GoBase Site, GoGod and
MasterGo
or even GoDatabase are the same games, they're all distributed under
different
packages for different amount of money. So one would think that the plain
SGF
should be free, shouldn't it ?

Or maybe Go Players would start asking royalties based on the SGF's being
distributed
under each package, since this is not being done (correct me if I am wrong)
then there
should be no problem distributing the "plain sgf" file.

Though this is my 2c... If you add GoGod collection into your collection (by
copying
it plainly) this would be wrong imho.

Trunk

GoGoD & I can talk about me paying them royaltie, that would be fair.
They worked hard to produce something that can't be copyrighted, so they
leverage their efforst by including, on their, CD freeware.

But "paying royalties" would be out of appreciation for their efforts, not
at all for any legal reason.

It is highly disputable that a game collection can be copyrighted, but still
to be legally on the safe side, I will not include the old games from their
collection, I will strip of course all their added comments etc.

I do no harm, as many people have repeatedly assured me that "GoGoD does not
make any money out of their CD".

The only harm I could do is that GoGoD will have less incone to buy rare Go
literature, which is a source for thir older game records.
This is why I will *not* include any games that are older than say 100
years. There are about 5000 games on the GoGoD CD that I would not include,
to avoid any real damage to them or the Go community.

But I also don't want to be slowed down. I can make an immensy powerful
product, something that will revolutionarize the comp. Go world, with 20,000
pro games. I originally intended to "licence" the GoGoD data, to pay a nice
big royalty to Fairbairn & Hall. But since there is no legal obligation for
such, and since they have tried hard (three times!) to discredit my work, I
think it would be dumb of me to start paying them more money than I already
have.

I have contacts with other game providers that sell games.

I have paid 600 USD for 200,000 non-pro games of very high quality (average
rank 4d)

I was prepared to pay 5,000 USD for the rights to use the GoGoD game
collection.

Not any more, and there is no need to.

I agree.
Still, I am going to do it.

It is wrong ethically, I fully agree. But not legally.
John Fairbairn spent a lot of time to enter those games, and he makes money
off it.

BUT

I am working on a Go software business, just as he does.
*He* started, three times, to try to destroy *my* software business.

I take that as an implicit declaration of war.
Hence my reciprocal explicit declaration of war to Mr. Fairbairn.

As we all know, war is a dirty business.
Even "the good guys", in war, do very nasty thing, sometimes intentionally,
sometimes they have no other choice.

So I am going to do a "nasty thing" back to Mr. Fairbairn, I am going to
redistribute "his" games.
This will teach him not to try to destroy a competitor.

I am fully prepared to be sued, in fact I strongly encourage it, it's always
nice to make things clear about copyright for the rest of the Go world.
Like I said, I have won a copyright-lawsuit before.

All legal correspondence to:

Frank de Groot
Hegdehaugsveien 21
0352 Oslo
Norway
tel. +0047 98680219
fr...@zenhacker.com

I think you just scared of a lot of potential buyers here. I for one
won't even look at your stuff now.

Regards,
Erik Oonk

This is not true. Collections of materials that are individually
uncopyrightable can be copyrighted, as copyright law, at least in the
U.S., regards the act of assembling a collection as a creative act
worthy of copyright. Like I said, you had better talk to a really good
lawyer before you do this, because what you are proposing to do may
very well be illegal, at least under U.S. copyright law, if you
include a significant fraction of their collection.

If you include a significant portion of their collection, even if you
strip out the comments, you'll have passed beyond "fair use". Talk to
a good lawyer.

I think you're overreacting to legitimate, constructive criticism and
using that overreaction as a ratinalization to do something you wanted
to do anyway. Even if what you do is technically legal, I regard it as
unethical, and so you won't ever see a dime of *my* money, at least.
--
-Patrick Bridges bri...@cs.unm.edu GPG Key ID = CB074C71

What about compilation copyright? As I understand it, compilation
copyright can apply to uncopyrighted material that is included in the
compilation. I don't think that stripping comments is enough to get
around the compilation copyright, is it? OC, copyright laws differ from
place to place.

Anyway, just asking.

Best wishes,

Bill

I, too, did win a game of Go or two before. No real guarantee of persistent
success on that kind of things. Anyway, you are really taking pains to
alienate the Go world, do you? Not only will I no longer buy your products,
even if they improve on their already nice quality, but I am at the moment
informing the French Go community of your dubious (to say the least)
attitude. Too bad, I was just saying *today* on my website nice things about
your work and your competence. But, as it is not really clear my bet is in
danger (the bet is : no computer will beat me before 2020), even if your
work is very promising, I dont think I am penalysing myself so much (not to
mention that protection against piracy might be harder to you now :-))

Does this make sense at all? Are you being silly or just plain grazy? I
thought self-destruction was prohibited by the rules.

I almost long for the good old server wars (probably because I killfiled
'em all).

Regards,
Vesa

I think that there is something there about editorial content in
that there is a choice as to which games to include. Anyways, i
am not a lawyer so...

--
gnat.

Chris among others suggested that Frank should have contacted me (or
as Stefan rightly pointed out Morten and me) prior to releasing his
program to the public. Frank replied along the lines of "SL is a
public resource, the blocking mechanism was easy to circumvent".

If I were the author of the program I would have contacted SL's admin
(especially after circumventing the block). Not so much asking for
permission, but to inform them and to ask them wether circumventing
the blocking mechanism would be harmful in any way. It's like knocking
on a door before entering a room. Of course one can enter without
knocking too, but knocking before is more polite. Even if you did not
think about it before Frank, you could have dropped me an email when
the discussion arose here on rgg. I would not know about this had I
not looked for follow-ups to my GTL 10 year post.

Frank wrote:
> Sensei's has, if I noticed right, immediately
> after my initial mentioning of this functionality,
> added a popup window

This is not true. The last change to SL's code is from March 10th. And
(see above) I did not know about your program until today.

Some asked about load, bandwidth etc. Currently SL has about 2mio
hits/month. I don't think that Frank's program (unless it has an
error) will trouble SL, although the program does title and full-text
searches (according to some other post) which are more resource
intensive than simple page views (currently about 11000
searches/month). As I'm the one paying the bills for Sensei's I will
take Frank by his word ("I will GIVE him a new server") should it be
needed.

Frank wrote:
> In fact they could start advertizing on their site,
> when their site is integrated into 10,000 SGF Readers.

SL has already the size to be interesting to advertizers (see above).
That being said, as long as I can afford it I will keep SL free of
advertizing. With the current growing rate of SL and the simultaneous
decline in server and bandwidth fees I think SL will stay free of ads
for the next 10 years.

Frank wrote:
> Arno, what do you think about this?

All being said and done, as your program does not infringe on the
rights of SL's contributors and authors I welcome your novel use of SL
helping people in playing and enjoying Go. Nice work, Frank.

/Arno

ps: I have a diametrically opposite opinion about software patents
than Frank, but I don't think that rgg is the place to discuss this.

--
SL: http://senseis.xmp.net/ -- a pot of go at the end of the rainbow
GTL: http://gtl.jeudego.org/ -- have your own games reviewed
SGF: http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/ -- smart game file format

But when enters a legal procedure, one expects to win.

I might block France from my website then.
No problem. They will get a page, in French, saying that due to Mr. Dennis
Feldmann,
they will not have the opportunity to even look at my site, let alone
download anything.
With an explanation on how there is a smear campaign, organized by a few
envious people/competitors.
And that they can email you if they have a problem with that.

I am unsensitive to your childish threats.
You can slander me as much as you want to the French Go community, if that
makes you happy.
I am afraid that it will backfire though.
When your intention is, like Mr. Fairbairn, to disrupt my future sales, then
by all means, create controversy and advertize that I intend to include
GoGoD games.

I alreaydy got email inquiries, by the way.
So soon, I can expect them from France as well?
If you want to pick a fight with me, Mr. Feldmann, you better think twice.
I have never lost a fight.

It's is beyond belief how the armchair script kiddies and envious wannabees
are just looking for a way to "dominate".
I only care to make a good product. The product will sell itself and does
not need Mr. Feldmann's endorsement, or the trust of France.

I do not need any friends in the Go community, I do not need people's
endorsements on websites, I do not need my stuff to be included on freeware
CD's, I do not need to be liked or anything. Let I make myself perfectly
clear. I already know that anyone with good ideas, talents or success will
meet *extreme hostility* from the wannabees, trolls and frustrated loosers.
That's the nature of USENET.
Huge ego's trying to "dominate" in the pecking order.

I prefer that everybody would STFU when they have nothing constructive to
say.

I gather you live in the US?
Then you would not be able to buy my software anyway.

Due to the peculiarities of US software law, I will not sell to the US
untill they change the law, which they probably won't, so tough luck.

Who gives a fuck, you moron.
People who are so stupid that they are scared of a product because its
author says things they don't like,
can go to hell.

You are twisting my words.
There is no blocking mechanism, like I explained.
The "blocking" consists of looking at which page the browser came from.
That's not blocking. You accuse me of a crime.
That is libel.

Sorry.
I hope that you are not going to start a fight with too.
When you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Absolutely not, any more, sincle you just have slandered me.
You are accusing me of a crime that carries a jail sentence, namely cracking
a protected computer system.
IUt's bullshit and you know it. Therefore, I can't trust your word any more.

You better think twice before you accuse people of commiting a criminal
offence.
I warn you that when you continue your allegations, you make yourself liable
to prosecution for libel.

You do not know my views on software patents.

dave

Frank de Groot wrote:
> "dave" <d...@d.com> wrote in message news:9Qp6c.39$L35...@news.oracle.com...
>
>>I get a "LoadIPLib Error" that says "Unable to find address of
>>iplDecimateExt function" then it aborts. I had the same problem with the
>>earlier releases.
>
>
>
> Sorry for that & thanks for the bug report.
>
> I have fixed the problem, simply downloading v09991 again and installing
> should fix it.
>
> I found on Google that this is a known (but very rare) problem when 2
> programs use Intel's Image Processing Library DLL, and both use a different
> version of the same DLL, with the same name but different versions. It is an
> extremely rare problem, you might be the only one experiencing it.
>
> I simply renamed the DLL of which you have 2 on your machine, ipl.dll.
>
> On your PATH is a DLL with the same name and a different version number. It
> looks like another application has misbehaved and put it in your Windows
> system folder (where applications NEVER should install anything).
>
> Have fun trying it this time and apologies for the inconvenience!
>
>

Frank de Groot wrote:

> "Chris Lawrence" <new...@holosys.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
>
>>It depends on the product which is using this old idea.
>
>
> Old or not, it's so useful that I wonder why not much (if any) other
> software implements it.
> Mind you, may current implementation is a bit shaky.
>
it is very common - visual studio for instance has had selected word
look up for as long as I can remember. Highlight a word or words in the
editor window, hit F1, and up pops the help page explaining it. This can
be a remote URL or local. The only difference here is that it is
automaticly done on click, but that would be a royal pain in other
environments like a visual editor.

dave

Uh, oh. I think Frank's off his medication today.

And his reply to Arno's rather generous response is a priceless
bit of lunacy. I'm archiving that one for future laughs.

I'd like to see Frank and Sam Sloan in a flame war.

-bluejack

Both does. Same as when one begins a game of go

And you wil block all the other countries where one guy will say bad things
on you (or just point people to these interesting threads), too?

No problem. You are not the only competent programmer around. And do you
intent to block Google, too?

If you say so. I am no competitor. As I said, I did recommend your work and
your site. I dont agree with your paranoid attitude, though, to say the
least. And I am not alone.

No problem, those were not threats, they were information. I do what I say
:-)

Maybe. Who knows?

No, my intention was to give you the opportunity of changing your mind. If
not, I would just have said all this to the French community, without
telling you. Now, I have no more doubts.

I dont think so. Most Go players are able to read and form their own
judgment.

Ha! Tell that to Go players :-)